WTN: Finger Lakes vs. Germany - Keep on Trocken

[David M. Bueker]

Saturday night, November 8, 2008 I was part of a wine tasting, comparing the Rieslings of the Finger Lakes regions of New York State with Rieslings from Germany (plus a welcome visitor from Canada). The purpose of the tasting was to see how Finger Lakes Rieslings stand up against some of the accepted benchmarks, and perhaps (through “reluctant” scoring) see if a Finger Lakes wine could break through the theoretical 90-point ceiling.

The Finger Lakes wines were selected by John Zuccarino of Silver Springs winery at Seneca Lake, and the Germans selected by your humble scribe, David Bueker. The Canadian wine was donated by one of the tasters with ties to the winery. Once the wines were submitted they were taken away to be prepared for a blind tasting of 15 wines (note: sneaky stuff ahead as there were only 13 wines available), served in flights of 3 in identical glasses at identical temperatures and only annotated by a paper circle on the glass with the tasting number (1-15). So just to be sure people are aware, I had no idea what wine was being served at what time. I had also never consumed more than 1 glass of any of the Germans being served (only a brief taste of two of them & one I had never tried), so I was fairly clear in terms of advance knowledge.

I will present my impressions and notes on the wines, in the order which they were served. For your convenience as a reader I will list the name of the wine with each note, rather than at the end (which is how we found out).

Wine #1: 2006 Bassermann-Jordan Riesling Trocken (Pfalz – Germany)
Initially quite reticent on aromatics, I found this to be a very basic Riesling, correct & well made but unexciting. I guessed Germany, second guessed myself & then third guessed myself back to Germany. (84 points)

Wine #2: 2007 Chateau Lafayette Reneau Riesling (Finger Lakes)
Overtly candied and somewhat disjointed with rough phenolics (so I guessed Finger Lakes). Very confected in terms of aromatics and palate sensations. Not good. (75 points)

Wine #3: 2006 Schlossgut Diel Goldloch Riesling Trocken Grosses Gewachs (Nahe – Germany)
Floral aromatics, but very hot and somewhat chemical on the palate. There are elements I like about this, but they are dominated by elements I do not like. Too big for its britches and overall no fun to drink. I guessed German Riesling, but I was not happy about the wine at all, especially given it’s very high price. The emperor might have clothes, but it’s a thong & he’s not built for it. (82 points)

Wine #4: 2007 Josef Leitz Riesling Trocken Ein, Zwei Dry ‘3’ (Rheingau – Germany)
Very austere and minerally but also quite drying. I also found this to be a bit rough on the palate. The balance is good but the roughness had me thinking Finger Lakes (oops). At least the aromatics and flavors were varietally correct and not chemical. (83 points)

Wine #5: 2007 Ravines Riesling (Finger Lakes)
Similar to #2 this was candied and disjointed, but not as rough. Still not much fun to drink. I guessed Finger Lakes. I should note that this was a disappointment to several folks, and a re-taste at dinner (the tasting was without food) was much more balanced. But the blind tasting rules. (78 points)

Wine #6: 2006 Herman J. Wiemer Riesling Dry (Finger Lakes)
Let’s go back to earlier in the day when Salil Benegal and I were driving to the event. We stopped at a few wineries, including Wiemer. I tasted this exact wine, liked it & said “this wine could trip me up if it’s in the tasting.” Well it did! I guessed German, and the wine was one of my top 3 for the night. It had a beautiful nose & sweet fruit on the palate. It was well balanced with no roughness at all. Very, very well done. (91 points! – a Finger Lakes Riesling cracks the 90 point barrier for me)

Wine #7: 2007 Glenora Winery Dry Riesling (Finger Lakes)
To quote Aerosmith, it’s the same old song and dance my friends. The aromatics are candied & the sweetness and acidity are like they were in two different rooms. There’s nothing faulty with this wine, but it’s confected and has a very short finish. I guessed Finger Lakes. (80 points)

Wine #8: 2006 Donnhoff Riesling Trocken ‘Grey Slate’ (Nahe – Germany)
A little bit reductive (later note – natural cork here), but lemony fruit, slate & some trapped CO2 have me heading straight for Germany with my regional guess. The wine has a long, vibrant finish, and it’s overall just delicious, one tick up from the Wiemer. (92 points)

Wine #9: 2006 Herman J. Wiemer Riesling Dry (Finger Lakes)
A little game was going on here. I really liked the wine again, but following the Donnhoff was not easy. I found this sample more floral than #6, but still very pretty. It was again well balanced, and I again guessed Germany, but the finish was rather short (easy to seem short after the Donnhoff), so I scored it a bit lower. (85 points)

Wine #10: 2006 Selbach-Oster Zeltinger Himmelreich Riesling Kabinett Halbtrocken (Mosel – Germany)
Youthfully bright, floral, citrusy and just a touch of creaminess. The best wine so far & I peg it blind as the Selbach. Delicious stuff that I could drink again and again. (93 points)

Wine #11: 2006 Atwater Estate Riesling (Finger Lakes)
First bottle oxidized due to what we are told is a crumbled cork. Ah the romance of cork, how I love it. Anyway, the second sample is clearly sound, though the wine is average. It’s varietally correct, but a bit hot on the palate (lacking in stuffing to balance its copious 12% alcohol??). I failed to record a regional guess after the faulty bottle. Drinkable but not my favorite. (82 points)

Wine #12: 2006 Prejean Riesling (Finger Lakes)
Immediately peg it as Finger Lakes, and it’s the worst wine of the tasting, with VA/glue aromas & a chemical, nasty profile. Yuck. (65 points – flawed wine)

Wine #13: 2007 Messmer Riesling Halbtrocken (Pfalz – Germany)
This wine is correct, but it’s so indistinct that I have no idea where it’s from or what is going on. So boring. So nothing. Could it be low level TCA or is it really this boring? (80 points)

Wine #14: 2007 Vineland Estates Dry Riesling (Canada)
No faults here, but it seems like the fruit flavors are a bit artificial. It’s fine to drink, but something just doesn’t ring true. (For what it’s worth, I had a Vineland wine at dinner that was in a German spatlese style that was really good). (84 points)

Wine #15: 2006 Prejean Riesling (Finger Lakes)
Well at least I hated it again. This bottle was better, with less VA, but it’s watery and not enjoyable. I’m really irritated to have this bad Finger Lakes wine again. At least this wasn’t as bad as the first time. (74 points).

So there you have it. My top three were 2 Germans and a Finger Lakes wine. If you go to top 4 then it’s two and two, but the two Finger Lakes wines were the same wine. I have a number of thoughts about what is going on in the Finger Lakes regarding vine age & yields, but that will have to wait a little bit.

Until then I would congratulate Herman J. Wiemer for making a really great Riesling, and I look forward to doing this again some time. Thanks to John Zuccarino and Thomas Pellechia for organizing a very professional event, and to all the tasters and winemakers for their part in the evening’s festivities.

Look for a complete analysis of the results of the 14 participating tasters--tomorrow.

The Finger Lakes choices are a bit odd: except for the Wiemer and the Ravines, they wouldn't be among my top wines at all. If you liked the '06 dry from Wiemer then you should try the semi-dry, which was better in that vintage. When I visited Ravines in October they had not yet released the regular '07 dry riesling but had a super single vineyard wine (Artesinger Vineyard?) from that vintage that was not at all confected (but somewhat overpriced, IMO). Many of the '07 FL wines have only been recently bottled, so wonder if that is a factor?

I'm looking forward to reading more about this event. I think it was really special and wish I was there.

I gotta agree... weird finger lakes choices. If your gonna bring in the Donnhof, then at least let the finger lakes weigh in with Lemoreaux Landing and Dr Frank. Standing Stone might be another contender.

Nevertheless, I enjoyed your report very much. Thanks!

David thanks for posting your WTN and scores. A few years back my wine tasting group had a similar Riesling blind tasting (identify the country or region of origin) involving Austria, Germany and Finger Lake wines. Leave it up to John and Thomas to pull the “double-up”, and congrats to you for not being fooled. (Number two and three, good job; 91 and 85 understandable in the situation; as far as not guessing the country or region of origin of a Herman J. Wiemer Riesling again understandable. Tell you the truth not really surprised coming from the knowledgeable “Riesling and Rock” guy).
Will be looking forward to your report Thomas.

Salute

Interesting event and kudos to you for bringing a fair selection of German wines and not trying to 'stack the deck' with heavy hitters (that said, interesting call on the Diel GG) which would only defeat the spirit of the tasting.

Although in some respects the Weimer is the Top Class of Finger Lakes riesling, and yet it barely kept up with the S-O kabinett and Donnhoff.

This was a really interesting and eye-opening tasting. Many thanks to Thomas Pellechia and John Zuccarino for setting it up - this was organized very well, and I'm looking forward to overall results.

From my perspective... the Hermann J. Wiemer Dry Riesling was the stand out for the Finger Lakes Riesling. I found a lot of the other FL Rieslings to be overly phenolic/chemical (with strange plastic or metallic notes) or shrill and acidic, but Wiemer Dry came across as the most balanced and enjoyable, and held its own with the better German wines poured. The Donnhoff for me was the most enjoyable among the Germans, and I found the Messmer halbtrocken another stand out in the dry flight. The Schlossgut Diel Dorsheimer Goldloch Großes Gewächs was a shock - this showed very poorly, and a second bottle opened later with dinner was almost as unpleasant to drink. Probably the biggest eye-opener here considering the reputation of the estate, and the press given to that and other GG wines. As David wrote, it's good to see what clothes the emperor's really wearing.

These are my impressions of the wines poured:

• 2006 Bassermann-Jordan Riesling Trocken - Germany, Pfalz
  Basic Riesling nose showing lime, grapefruit and minerals. Dry on the palate with citrus fruit flavours, good acidity and a faintly warm finish. Not particularly interesting, but a decent example of dry Riesling. (81 pts.)
• 2007 Chateau Lafayette Reneau Riesling Dry - USA, New York, Finger Lakes, Seneca Lake
  The nose has a floral character which is spoiled by the presence of faintly plastic/vinyl aromas. Unpleasant on the palate with citrus fruits and awkward metallic and phenolic notes. Rough finish. (77 pts.)
• 2006 Schlossgut Diel Dorsheimer Goldloch Riesling Großes Gewächs - Germany, Nahe
  Tasted from two different bottles (one in the tasting, one at dinner). Very unpleasant from the first with an offputting nose showing strange, faintly chemical and metallic flavours and some tart lemon and grapefruit flavours. On the palate this felt austere and harsh with stony and flinty mineral notes, tart citrus fruits and faint herbal notes. Felt unbalanced and overall quite unpleasant. From a second bottle this was not as coarse or harsh on the palate, but the nose still was very offputting. (77 pts.)
• 2007 Weingut Josef Leitz Riesling Eins Zwei Dry "3" - Germany, Rheingau
  Citrus, stone fruits and mineral notes on the nose and palate here. Bone-dry on the palate with lots of acidity - simple and straightforward, but quite uninteresting. (86 pts.)
• 2007 Ravines Wine Cellars Riesling - USA, New York, Finger Lakes
  Awful aromatic profile with vinyl/plastic and metallic notes dominating everything else. Tart, awkward and unbalanced on the palate with a rough texture and finish. (70 pts.)
• 2006 Hermann J. Wiemer Riesling Dry - USA, New York, Finger Lakes
  A slightly shy nose shows some citrus zest, pear and stony mineral notes. Very pleasant on the palate with orange, lime and nectarine flavours and a little residual sweetness. I did not pick this as a Finger Lakes Riesling in the tasting, and this was by far the most impressive wine from that area. (88 pts.)
• 2007 Glenora Wine Cellars Riesling - USA, New York, Finger Lakes
  I had a hard time believing this wasn't a flawed wine. Very awkward chemical nose, lemon and plastic flavours on the palate, incredibly rough and disjointed. NR (flawed)
• 2006 Dönnhoff Grey Slate Riesling Kabinett trocken - Germany, Nahe
  Very nice nose with some flowers, pear, citrus fruits and slatey minerals. Clean and precise on the palate with bright fruit flavours around a core of minerals and good acidity. Refreshing and very enjoyable. My favourite of the flight. (89 pts.)
• 2006 Hermann J. Wiemer Riesling Dry - USA, New York, Finger Lakes
  From a second bottle placed elsewhere in the tasting. Floral character, slightly sweet with nectarine and lime flavours on the nose and palate and good acidity. There's some noticeable residual sugar on the back that stands apart from the other flavours. May have suffered in comparison with the Donnhoff. (82 pts.)
• 2006 Selbach-Oster Zeltinger Himmelreich Riesling Kabinett Halbtrocken - Germany, Mosel Saar Ruwer
  Slightly austere with the nose showing a very minerally character. Bright, pure citrus flavours on the palate over crushed stones and good acidity. Clean and refreshing. (88 pts.)
• 2006 Atwater Vineyards Riesling Dry - USA, New York, Finger Lakes
  Unpleasant nose with a dominant metallic/phenolic character. Much more pleasant on the palate with clean (if slightly simple) lemon and stony flavours. Long finish with a little warmth. (80 pts.)
• 2006 Prejean Winery Dry Riesling - USA, New York, Finger Lakes
  Faintly metallic, chemical nose that's hard to get by. Tart green apple and lemon flavours and flint on the palate with high acidity, and shows some roughness on the back end. A second bottle of this (placed elsewhere in the flight) was very similar and just as unpleasant. (76 pts.)
• 2007 Vineland Estates Winery Riesling Dry - Canada, Ontario, Niagara Peninsula, Niagara Peninsula VQA
  Austere nose shows little. Shrill, overly acidic on the palate with clean but tart fruit flavours and stony minerals. (83 pts.)
• 2007 Meßmer Riesling Halbtrocken - Germany, Pfalz
  Tightly wound nose shows some grapefruit, lemon and minerals, but gives the impression there's more in reserve. Clean and precise citrus fruit flavours on the palate with lots of minerals and bright acidity underneath. This is one wine I'd like to explore more with some time and food. (89 pts.)

I didn't enjoy the dry wines as much as some of the others - I'll throw in a disclaimer that I generally prefer Riesling that's off-dry (and normally prefer drier Rieslings from Alsace, Austria or Australia to their German counterparts for stylistic reasons), but I also wondered if the tasting conditions may have caused some of the drier/more acidic wines to show a little poorly. I did revisit the Donnhoff, Diel, Vineland and Selbach-Oster briefly with dinner afterwards, and they did seem to offer more with food.

On an unrelated note: David and I visited three wineries much earlier in the day to just taste and explore through some of the other Finger Lakes wines. At Wiemer and Fox Run, the Gewurztraminers were very impressive (even if at Fox Run it did resemble a Muscat more with the orange peel and faintly grapey character). The Wiemer Gewurz is one of the best renditions of Gewurztraminer I've tasted in the New World - very tropical, exotic and floral with great balance. Considering the attention a lot of Finger Lakes Rieslings are getting, I do think the Gewurztraminers deserve some more recognition if those wines were any indication of what can be done there.

(PS: David, congratulations. You may have found a worse wine-pun than Eins Zwei Dry.)

[David M. Bueker]

The Finger Lakes choices are a bit odd: except for the Wiemer and the Ravines, they wouldn't be among my top wines at all. If you liked the '06 dry from Wiemer then you should try the semi-dry, which was better in that vintage. When I visited Ravines in October they had not yet released the regular '07 dry riesling but had a super single vineyard wine (Artesinger Vineyard?) from that vintage that was not at all confected (but somewhat overpriced, IMO). Many of the '07 FL wines have only been recently bottled, so wonder if that is a factor?

I don't know how John selected the Finger Lakes wines. I specifically selected most of the Germans based on potential 90 point scores (the Bassermann-Jordan and Messmer were not selected that way - they were available & fit the theme). It turns out that I had the criteria about right for the 4 I specifically chose (Leitz, Selbach, Donnhoff, Diel) though not all of them showed as outstanding wines.

I tasted at several wineries (including Wiemer) earlier in the day with Salil Benegal, and I found the confected/phenolic aspect to be consistent. In my past tastings of Finger Lakes wines that note has come through as well, so I don't think it was a bottling issue.

As for semi-dry Rieslings, I found the dry renditions more enjoyable at every winery I visited. For me the sweetness and structure were often not knit togetehr on the Finger Lakes semi-dry wines.

Supposedly the Prejean was some kind of gold medal winner, and some folks really liked it. I am very sensitive to VA (why I cannot drink Turley), so it showed as a flawed wine for my palate.

[David M. Bueker]

I gotta agree... weird finger lakes choices. If your gonna bring in the Donnhof, then at least let the finger lakes weigh in with Lemoreaux Landing and Dr Frank. Standing Stone might be another contender.

Talk to John - as I said above I had no input on the Finger Lakes wines. And I really didn't stack the deck as much as I could have. I didn't bring Keller, and the Donnhoff was not one of his top Grosses Gewachs bottlings. I also could have trotted out the Leitz Rudesheimer Berg Rottland Trocken (my favorite dry German wine).

Great post title, David

Wiemer is my favorite Finger Lakes wine maker, edging out Dr Frank, who gets more press. I rarely drink anything else from the region except for the occasional dessert wine.

I think if you stuck to those two, the Finger Lakes would be right in the pack among the world's rieslings. Pretty impressive when you compare how long each region has been at it.

Nice notes.
Doesn't look to me like you tried to stack the deck.
Thanks for reports

I’m very sure the knowledgeable “Riesling and Rock” guy could have easily stacked the deck in favor of Germany. But then again John and Thomas are also very knowledgeable “wine guys” and could have decided not to include any wine selected by David that they thought “stacked the deck” and replace it with something else. What I will like to know (and I am sure Thomas will tell us was- How much information was given to the tasters prior to the presentation of the wines? By looking at both David’s and Salil’s written impressions of the wine and the scores it seems to me that the tasters were instructed on how to score the wines.
Question for David or Salil, Did all 15 wines remain in front of you during the tasting (were you able to go back and forth from say wine # 6 and wine # 9) or was the first flight evaluated and then removed from the table and second flight presented?

Salute

I'm surprised John didn't have you guys taste the Terce, a joint-group effort by 3 Seneca lake wineries (Anthony Road, Red Newt, and Fox Run). Their 2005 rendition is a very nice dry wine, on the minerally side. I think this would have gotten good reviews.
FWIW, from what I tasted in August at Lafayette-Reneau, I wasn't impressed. Liked them much better in the late-80's and early 90's.

David:

Could you borrow TomHill's Bloody Pulpit, climb upon it, and talk about your thoughts on Trockens?

I know you taste through the entire range of Riesling styles. And different people have different ideas of where the "best" spot in that range is for showcasing the best qualities of Riesling. Where would you be, and what do you feel about the effort for many winemakers to make more Riesling in the Trocken style?

Another way of asking the same question is, Would you like to see more Trockens, or do you feel that Riesling often performs better with at least some trace of residual sugar to give it weight, roundness, or texture?

Interesting notes, David and Salil. I had the '05 Wiemer Dry Riesling at a jeebus in Toledo last winter (thanks to Steve Guattery) and I'm not surprised at the showing of the '06 in your lineup. I know next to nothing about Finger Lakes wines, but Wiemer is the real deal as far as I can tell.

Mark Lipton

[David M. Bueker]

Not a lot of time right now, but I do want to answer one question - the tasters we told they were drinking Riesling from the Finger Lakes and Germany, nothing more. We were given a tasting sheet to evaluate a few characteristics (varietal typicity, aromatics, flavors...) and then asked to provide a score. We were not told how to arrive at that score.

Mroe later - maybe even a trocken bloody pulpit. I have a note in to Tom Hill to see if I can get it. If not I'll use the bully pulpit.

I wish others had waited to post their notes, which is why I was reluctant to give them back, but did anyway. It’s not my aim to point fingers at tasters or to prove anything beyond the fact that a truly double blind tasting is educational—or it should be.

So, here’s the analysis of the Nov 8 Riesling tasting.

There were 13 wines—six German, six New York, and one Canadian Riesling—but the tasters sampled fifteen. The purpose of the duplicate pours was to point out to tasters how perceptions can be altered by what is tasted before and after a wine.

In the case of the Wiemer, I purposely put it before another Finger Lakes and after the Donnhoff, knowing that the wine had the potential to make others think German. The Prejean was placed before and after a German and a Canadian wine, to see what the potential jumble of tastes might cause.

The Wiemer received 90 and above points from 6 tasters, however, no taster scored it that way twice.

The majority of tasters who did not like the two wines that were duplicated, had written the same general reason for their dislike of the wines on each occasion. This was not the case for those who scored the wines at or above 90.

5 out of 6 who scored Wiemer in the 90s scored the first appearance of the wine over the second, the remaining person scored in the opposite direction.

Of the 4 who scored Prejean in the 90s, 2 preferred the first appearance; 2 preferred the second.

Four New York wines received ratings at or above 90 points; of the four, Wiemer received 6, Prejean received 4, Glenora received 1, and Atwater (the one that had to be replaced by a second bottle) received 1. A total of 12 NY scores at or above 90.

Five German wines received ratings at or above 90; of the five, Donnhoff received 5, Messmer received 4, Selbach-Oster received 3, Bassermann received 2, and Lietz received 1. A total of 15 German scores at or above 90.

Vineland Estate received two scores at or above 90. A total of 2 Canadian scores at or above 90.

The best I can determine, 131 scores were in the 80s, with 30 scores in the 70s, and 27 scores under 70. Some people skipped a few scores, and others refused to follow the scoring chart I made up just for this event.

Here are stats I find truly interesting:

2 tasters gave 90 or above only to German wine.
4 tasters gave 90 or above only to NY wine.
4 tasters gave 90 or above to both German and NY wine.
1 taster gave 90 or above to German and Canadian wine.
1 taster gave 90 or above to NY and Canadian wine.

It was truly difficult to decipher most handwriting, but overall verbal impressions for the range of wines were relatively good across the board, with of course a few hate this and hate that. Generally, those who preferred German over NY wines seemed to have plenty of trouble with the phenolics of the latter.

The list of wines in the order that they were tasted.

2006 Bassermann-Jordan Riesling Trocken ($15.99 - Pfalz)
2007 Chateau Lafayette Reneau Dry Rielsing ($14.99 Seneca Lake, East Side)
2006 Schlossgut Diel Goldloch Riesling Trocken Grosses Gewachs ($59.99 - Nahe)
2007 Josef Leitz Ein Zwei Dry '3' Riesling Trocken ($15.99 - Rheingau)
2007 Ravines Dry Argenstsiner Vineyard Riesling ($25.00 Keuka Lake, East Side)
2006 Hermann Wiemer Dry Riesling ($17.99 Seneca Lake, West Side)
2007 Glenora Dry Riesling ($11.99 Seneca Lake, West Side)
2006 Hermann Donnhoff Grey Slate Riesling Trocken ($19.99 - Nahe)
2006 Hermann Wiemer Dry Riesling ($17.99 Seneca Lake, West Side)
2006 Selbach-Oster Zeltinger Himmelreich Riesling Kabinett Halbtrocken ($19.99 - Mosel)
2006 Atwater Estate Semi-Dry Riesling ($17.00 Seneca Lake, East Side)
2006 Prejean Semi-Dry Riesling ($11.99 Seneca Lake, West Side)
2007 Messmer Riesling Halbtrocken ($13.99 - Pfalz)
2007 Vineland Estate Semi-dry Riesling ($ ? Ontario)
2006 Prejean Semi-dry Riesling ($11.99 Seneca Lake, West Side)

I agree with Joe that, beyond the Wiemer and the Ravines, this wouldn't have been the set of wines I would have chosen to showcase Finger Lakes Riesling. A few thoughts and some other things I'd recommend to folks interested in exploring these wines:

It's too bad that the 2007 Ravines showed poorly. A lot of Morten Hallgren's wines need some time in the bottle before they show well, and they can be austere and harsh for several months after bottling. From Thomas's notes, this was the Argetsinger Vineyard Riesling Joe mentions. I thought it was showing extremely well in late July, though, so my claim about needing time in the bottle may not apply here; may be the bottle I tried had been open for a while. It's one of three premium Alsatian-style wines Morten made in 2007, along with a Pinot Gris and a Gewurztraminer. The Pinot Gris was very good, though I preferred the Riesling.

The 2005 Tierce that Mark S. mentions was excellent this summer, both when I tried it at the winery with Mark, and a month later when I opened a bottle for a friend. I first tried it in summer 2006, and found it somewhat hard and closed. What a difference a year makes. Haven't tried the 2006 yet, which is apparently now available.

I also like Treleaven's Dry Riesling. I was introduced to this producer by Dan Smothergill at the 2006 NiagaraCOOL. All the vintages from 2005-2007 have been very nice. This wine has a greener profile than a lot of other Finger Lakes Rieslings, with aromas tending more toward herbal and citrus zest than floral. I'm not sure if David would object to the phenolics, but candied it's not. Bottled under Nomacork so I'm not sure I'd trust these to age, though I'd really like to see how they develop over 10 years.

I also like Dr. Frank's Dry Riesling in many years (where's Mark Criden? He's a big fan of the Dr. Frank Riesling as I recall). I've had some aged ones that were excellent, including the 2001 Reserve last summer.

Mark L: Did you try the 2004 Left Foot Charlie Riesling from Michigan that geot opened at Toledo? I'd first tried that at the 2006 NiagaraCOOL, but the bottle last February was really, really good. I'm only sorry that I don't have a few bottles myself. If Toledo is in the cards for me this year, and if you're interested, I'll try to bring a couple of interesting bottles of FL Riesling.

Finally, David: If you ever get back to your alma mater, look me up and I'll be happy to open some bottles for you. In addition to some of the things mentioned above, I've got the Wiemer 2002 Reserve (Governor's Cup winner) and the 2002 Heron Hill 25th Anniversary tucked away to see how they do with a little age.

David:

Could you borrow TomHill's Bloody Pulpit, climb upon it, and talk about your thoughts on Trockens?

I know you taste through the entire range of Riesling styles. And different people have different ideas of where the "best" spot in that range is for showcasing the best qualities of Riesling. Where would you be, and what do you feel about the effort for many winemakers to make more Riesling in the Trocken style?

Another way of asking the same question is, Would you like to see more Trockens, or do you feel that Riesling often performs better with at least some trace of residual sugar to give it weight, roundness, or texture?

I'm not David, but I do drink Riesling. In my view, if it takes a little rs for roundness, then so be it; if it doesn't, so be it also. The word "dry" is not as holy to me as the idea that a wine be well balanced and well produced.

I know one winemaker who ferments them dry no matter what. He says that he gives the wines lees contact to round them. His idea hasn't worked yet for my palate.

I know one winemaker who ferments them dry no matter what. He says that he gives the wines lees contact to round them. His idea hasn't worked yet for my palate.

Thomas,

Out of curiosity, who are you referring to? If it's a commercial winery, I'd like to know if I agree or disagree with your take. Thanks.

For the record, I would have preferred Dr. Frank and Heron Hill in the tasting, but I did not choose the wines and I also have no reason to second guess either the fellow who chose them or the results that we got without them.

If you read the results you see that the overall Finger Lakes showing wasn't so far away from the overall German wine showing.

I know one winemaker who ferments them dry no matter what. He says that he gives the wines lees contact to round them. His idea hasn't worked yet for my palate.

Thomas,

Out of curiosity, who are you referring to? If it's a commercial winery, I'd like to know if I agree or disagree with your take. Thanks.

Maybe we could do that in a PM. I'm quite sensitive to my position in the industry and know that those in the industry can be even more sensitive .