Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker
David M. Bueker
Riesling Guru
34406
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
Keith M
Beer Explorer
1184
Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:25 am
Finger Lakes, New York
Tim York wrote:Maria Samms wrote:that really puts me at a disadvantage when it comes to pronunciation of wines/regions. For this reason, I seek out as much audio media regarding wine as possible (shows like "In Wine Country" and the "Thunder Show" or "Uncorked").
I was, however, disappointed when Gary V did a show about Italian wines and really botched up the pronunciations.
Maria, don't copy Gary's pronunciation of French names. It is truly horrible.
Peter May
Pinotage Advocate
3816
Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:24 am
Snorbens, England
AlexR wrote:
To what extent should wine educators (authors, critics, TV show hosts...) do their best to pronounce the names of foreign wines like native speakers?
Peter May wrote:Why on earth shouldn't he pronounce a name in American style?
Maria Samms
Picky Eater Pleaser
1272
Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:42 pm
Morristown, NJ
AlexR wrote:This raises an interesting issue.
To what extent should wine educators (authors, critics, TV show hosts...) do their best to pronounce the names of foreign wines like native speakers?
Some people know the right pronuciation, but feel that they will communicate better, or not appear to be snobbish, if they anglicise the foreign words.
Others, of course, have no inkling.
Surely, this is not the most important aspect of wine appreciation. However, it's true that some pronuciations sound like people dragging their fingernails across a blackboard...
What to do?
If a waiter pronounces the name of a dish, or a wine, the way it would be pronounced in, say, Italy or France, could this not be seen as:
- intimidating?
- pretentious
- difficult to understand?
- offputting?
- impossible to repeat?
Ditto for people on the TV???
As for the intimidating part, I certainly feel intimidated by the pronunciation of German words a mile long!
All this boils down to: should the wine educator stick with the lowest common denominator *or* stick this neck to pronounce wine names the "right" way i.e. the way they do in the country the wine comes from?
Best regards,
Alex R.
Maria Samms wrote:Alex - I do wish that wine educators would learn and pronounce wine as close as possible to how the winery, or area where the wine is made, pronounces them. That is my biggest gripe with the Thunder Show. Just because we Americanize most words here in the US, doesn't mean I think it's right...but, again, that is just my opinion.
Robin Garr wrote:Again, though, the Vayniacs are a completely different demographic. You don't know many of them and neither do I. They're not in our generation, they don't read the wine critics, and they don't hang out on wine-geek forums. But ... at the risk of repetition ... Gary has done an amazing job of bringing them into fine wine.
Daniel Rogov
Resident Curmudgeon
0
Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:10 am
Tel Aviv, Israel
Peter May wrote:Why on earth shouldn't he pronounce a name in American style?
Daniel Rogov wrote:True, once a word has become an accepted part of a language (such as the English pronunciation of the city of Paris), that is acceptable. Beyond that, however, mispronunciation (accent aside) is a sign of ignorance.
Dale Williams wrote:While I may be pushing 50, I know a load of 20-something year olds. Some drink wine, some don't. None watch Gary. Actually,more order from Garagiste (the hype kings), than WL. To me, the biggest question if Gary is the Parker of GenY is why if you look on WL's site at the wines he gives big scores to (and in most cases feature in a video), some quite small production wines were reviewed months ago and are still available, both at Wine Library and elsewhere. So where is the evidence of this great following? Maybe they're all under age, but PLAN on buying wine when it's legal?
Peter May
Pinotage Advocate
3816
Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:24 am
Snorbens, England
Daniel Rogov wrote:Peter May wrote:Why on earth shouldn't he pronounce a name in American style?
True, once a word has become an accepted part of a language (such as the English pronunciation of the city of Paris), that is acceptable. Beyond that, however, mispronunciation (accent aside) is a sign of ignorance.
Keith M
Beer Explorer
1184
Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:25 am
Finger Lakes, New York
Daniel Rogov wrote:True, once a word has become an accepted part of a language (such as the English pronunciation of the city of Paris), that is acceptable. Beyond that, however, mispronunciation (accent aside) is a sign of ignorance.
Peter May
Pinotage Advocate
3816
Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:24 am
Snorbens, England
Rahsaan wrote:Peter May wrote:Why on earth shouldn't he pronounce a name in American style?
However, at times Gary V (and others) will completely mangle the word by ........... omitting syllables and letters that are there.
Daniel Rogov
Resident Curmudgeon
0
Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:10 am
Tel Aviv, Israel
Keith M wrote:And how does a word, however pronounced, become an accepted part of a language?
Maria Samms
Picky Eater Pleaser
1272
Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:42 pm
Morristown, NJ
Tim York wrote:Maria Samms wrote:Alex - I do wish that wine educators would learn and pronounce wine as close as possible to how the winery, or area where the wine is made, pronounces them. That is my biggest gripe with the Thunder Show. Just because we Americanize most words here in the US, doesn't mean I think it's right...but, again, that is just my opinion.
Maria,
For me, Gary's message is far more important than his style or his pronunciation. However, while his style probably plays an important part in helping him to connect with his audience, I have a hard time in believing than he would lose a single person if he made a better attempt to pronounce French, Italian and German words in a way understandable to a native speaker as well as to Americans.
I give Gary the credit here of believing that his mispronunciations may not be a deliberate policy. He probably just has a poor ear. He strikes me as being the sort of guy who is inclusive and respectful of foreign cultures; otherwise I doubt if his taste in wine would be so wide ranging.
Daniel Rogov
Resident Curmudgeon
0
Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:10 am
Tel Aviv, Israel
Rahsaan wrote:One should add that there is also a difference between an 'average citizen' mispronouncing words from cultures that they rarely interact with, and a specialized worker mispronouncing words from cultures that form the basis of his/her professional life.
Rahsaan wrote:One should add that there is also a difference between an 'average citizen' mispronouncing words from cultures that they rarely interact with, and a specialized worker mispronouncing words from cultures that form the basis of his/her professional life.
Maria Samms
Picky Eater Pleaser
1272
Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:42 pm
Morristown, NJ
Rahsaan wrote:One should add that there is also a difference between an 'average citizen' mispronouncing words from cultures that they rarely interact with, and a specialized worker mispronouncing words from cultures that form the basis of his/her professional life.
Dan Donahue wrote:But I don't think that is the message his core audience wants to hear. Wine isn't something you study and work at; just rip out the cork and have fun. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
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