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Ick! Conglomerate cork?

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Ick! Conglomerate cork?

by Robin Garr » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:17 pm

This looks like an awful old conglomerate cork (Falesco '11 Vitiano), but could it be? Or is it a "tech cork" or Diam? No trademark or logo, though.
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Re: Ick! Conglomerate cork?

by David M. Bueker » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:21 pm

I don't think DIAM has a logo on it.
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Re: Ick! Conglomerate cork?

by Robin Garr » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:27 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:I don't think DIAM has a logo on it.

David, they definitely did when they were new, but maybe they've gotten over it?

Pictures here ...
http://www.diam-bouchon-liege.com/Obtur ... spiritueux
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Re: Ick! Conglomerate cork?

by David M. Bueker » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:52 pm

Opened a lot of them in the last few years. Not seen a mark.
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Re: Ick! Conglomerate cork?

by Richard Fadeley OLD » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:07 pm

I think It is "agglomerated cork" not conglomerated cork, but I could be wrong. Either way, I like what they are doing. BTW, have you noticed how the incidence of corked wines has slowed to a trickle? I think it is a combination of DIAM's, screw-caps, and better quality control from the "cork-boys". It is a welcome respite from the '90's and early '00's when we would see 5%+/- wines being corked. I view DIAM as a mark of quality. Is there something I don't know?
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Re: Ick! Conglomerate cork?

by Steve Slatcher » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:30 am

David M. Bueker wrote:Opened a lot of them in the last few years. Not seen a mark.

How do you know they were Diam? Unless you have information from the producer they might be another brand.

On the corked wine front... yes they seem to be getting rarer for all the reasons Richard mentions, but I am still getting corked wine from recent releases and if a wine has an alternative closure I see that as an advantage. I seem to have had a bit of a bad patch recently.
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Re: Ick! Conglomerate cork?

by Peter May » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:32 am

If it doesn't say DIAM on the cork, I assume it's not.

I suppose the winery could order the corks without DIAM branding but doesn't make sense why they would, if they'd invested in this superior closure.

I'm seeing more DIAM, including from my own favourite Champagne grower, and fewer agglomerates, and not so many twin tops as before.

Although, unfortunately, my everyday Italian has switched to a plastic closure, albeit with a hole with some membrane giving controlled oxygen egress. Supposedly.
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Re: Ick! Conglomerate cork?

by Victorwine » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:52 am

The “old” conglomerated corks were just natural corks with “cork sawdust” (cork particles) compressed or bonded into the pores of the cork. This made them very “hard” and made hand corking (with a hand held corker) almost impossible. Agglomerated cork is made from cork particles bonded together. Technical cork are both agglomerated cork and natural cork (1 + 1 technical cork being an agglomerated cork with a disk of natural cork bonded at both ends).

Salute
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Re: Ick! Conglomerate cork?

by David M. Bueker » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:32 am

Ok, I am going to open an ESJ wine tonight or tomorrow and check it out. I know Steve uses DIAM, but have never noticed a mark.
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Re: Ick! Conglomerate cork?

by Robin Garr » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:09 am

Yaniger responded on Facebook, judging this a cheap, crappy composite cork, not Diam.

I'll be eager to hear David's findings with the ESJ tonight. Thanks for taking one for the team, David. :mrgreen:
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Re: Ick! Conglomerate cork?

by Oliver McCrum » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:58 pm

Diam does have a brand on the side. Sometimes it's a stylized 'd' and sometimes they say DIAM, with the number (e.g. 'DIAM3').

That cork appears to have a brand too, almost visible on the backside in the photo.

Why 'Ick'?
Last edited by Oliver McCrum on Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ick! Conglomerate cork?

by Shaji M » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:20 pm

I am going to echo Oliver..Why Ick?
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Re: Ick! Conglomerate cork?

by Robin Garr » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:12 pm

Oliver McCrum wrote:Why 'Ick'?

Because, if it is not a Diam or "technical cork" but a cheap, old-school agglomerated cork - as Yaniger asserts it is in a parallel discussion on Facebook - then it's almost certain to contain TCA, at low levels or, randomly, not so low levels.
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Re: Ick! Conglomerate cork?

by Tom Troiano » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:24 pm

Robin Garr wrote:
Oliver McCrum wrote:Why 'Ick'?

Because, if it is not a Diam or "technical cork" but a cheap, old-school agglomerated cork - as Yaniger asserts it is in a parallel discussion on Facebook - then it's almost certain to contain TCA, at low levels or, randomly, not so low levels.


Robin, that's a pretty strong statement. Can you give us some evidence to suggest this is truly the case?
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Re: Ick! Conglomerate cork?

by Oliver McCrum » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:46 pm

Robin Garr wrote:
Oliver McCrum wrote:Why 'Ick'?

Because, if it is not a Diam or "technical cork" but a cheap, old-school agglomerated cork - as Yaniger asserts it is in a parallel discussion on Facebook - then it's almost certain to contain TCA, at low levels or, randomly, not so low levels.


I am very leery of most agglomerated cork, for the reason you give (although 'almost certain' is a bit strong). I have lost three different shipments of 100 cs each to that kind of closure, just in the last year. But there is at least one other agglomerated cork (made by Amorim) that claims the same maximum TCA of 0.5 ppt. Diam is still agglomerated, it's just cleaned differently. Screwcaps, for heavens sake...

Did you drink that Falesco, and did it seem corky?
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Re: Ick! Conglomerate cork?

by Robin Garr » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:51 pm

Tom Troiano wrote:Robin, that's a pretty strong statement. Can you give us some evidence to suggest this is truly the case?

Strong statement? Tom, that's established information over time. Now, I specified that I am NOT talking about modern "technical corks" or Diam, which are new=generation stoppers made from natural cork with specific procedures aimed at eliminating TCA. I'm talking about the old-style agglomerates essentially made from leftover cork dust and fragments glued into a stopper. This approach almost guaranteed that a random sample of TCA would occur in a very large percentage of corks. There's really no news in this. It's been common wine-geek knowledge for years.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC134401/
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Re: Ick! Conglomerate cork?

by David M. Bueker » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:00 pm

ESJ Rocks & Gravel cork does indeed have a DIAM mark. I just needed my glasses to see it. :oops:
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Re: Ick! Conglomerate cork?

by Robin Garr » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:55 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:ESJ Rocks & Gravel cork does indeed have a DIAM mark. I just needed my glasses to see it. :oops:

Thanks for checking, David. It's good to have that confirmed.
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Re: Ick! Conglomerate cork?

by Tom Troiano » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:24 am

Robin Garr wrote:
Tom Troiano wrote:Robin, that's a pretty strong statement. Can you give us some evidence to suggest this is truly the case?

Strong statement? Tom, that's established information over time. Now, I specified that I am NOT talking about modern "technical corks" or Diam, which are new=generation stoppers made from natural cork with specific procedures aimed at eliminating TCA. I'm talking about the old-style agglomerates essentially made from leftover cork dust and fragments glued into a stopper. This approach almost guaranteed that a random sample of TCA would occur in a very large percentage of corks. There's really no news in this. It's been common wine-geek knowledge for years.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC134401/



Robin,

Thanks. I guess I don't pay enough attention to this topic. I knew they had a higher taint rate but when you said "it's almost certain to contain TCA" that surprised me.
Tom T.

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