Grilled Pizza Article

Fruit ain't got nothin' to do with pizza!

Yeah, well... Raw fish ain't got nuthin' to do with cooking either, yet otherwise sane and intelligent folks go gaga over sushi and sashimi, with all the associated risks of wormy parasites and bacteria, to say nuthin' about raw oysters. If it's on a pizza crust, as long as it tastes good, it's pizza.

No, it's not. It's something that tastes good to you or something you like - I have no problem with anyone's individual tastes. If you call a tomato a rock, it doesn't make it a rock.

If one piles a bunch of shit on top of a piece of flat bread and says "Voila, pizza!" it doesn't mean it is in fact a pizza.

Doesn't make that concoction any more a pizza than going to war by saying a country has weapons of mass destruction when you're lying through your goddamn teeth a legitimate construct.

This was a food developed at a very specific place and time with a very specific name and specific ingredients.

Here, I'm going to serve you some chocolate pudding, but I'm calling it split pea soup. Okay? That will be what we will call it from now on. Cool?

It is a real thing and not some American bastardized bullshit, corporate, mass produced, assembly line version of it.

Other than that we are incomplete agreement.

Chef Carey,
You are a published chef of great repute but I have to say when it comes to pizza you are way out in left field. The Pizza Napoletana Margherita is a great story and indeed is defined by the Italian government but it has its history in a story involving Queen Margherita that commisioned a pizza to be made for her and this one was selected. It was obviously well made but also included red (tomato sauce) white (cheese) and green (basil) which are the colors of the Italian flag. One could argue that it should be a Mexican pie. When making pizza for a large group I always start with Pizza Margherita because it has a great story, tastes great and defines "less as better" but to say this is the only pizza is very limiting. I am a disciple of Peter Reinhart that believes "more is better" and loosely defines this as the American Pie. Great pizza starts with a great dough, Napoletana is great but I use Neo-Napolitan (has a small amount of OO). After that let the world be your mushroom. By the way, using your definition you would not use mushrooms, or sausage, or grilled veggies and certainly not my signature pizza that uses raisins and pine nuts to balance the flavor of good Italian sausage. I personally have never used pineapple but can imagine a great flavor attack. "More is better" in my pizza world and it starts with great dough which carries great flavors of whatever you want to work with.
Walt

I've learned to acclimate myself to left field over the years. Spend a lot of my time there.

How's your arm? Need a cut-off man coming in from shortstop?

I half-agree, pizza does need to be those things to be DOCG pizza. But to just be "pizza," there's more latitude. It's just that "fruit" doesn't fall in there. Tell ya what, instead of you, Cynthia, and me annoying the benighted, let's put our heads together and do something affirmative- let's coin a new, snazzy name for the "baked dough disc with fruit and stuff on top." And maybe the benighted will be so taken with that shiny trinket, they'll leave the glorious name of "pizza" unsullied.

What I find most amusing about this entire exchange is that I was just fooling around... riffing on the infamous Chili Post # 2. I have no stake in what anyone else puts on their pizza or what they call it.

Geez, you guys!

I'm still waiting for a name suggestion, young lady. And keep it clean, OK?

I don't think she's turned on by being in bed with you and me, Stuart.

Sorry, you'd be a fun guy to cook with but I just don't swing that way. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

Can anyone tell us what is acceptable to put on a pizza?

Are anchovies still allowed?

Are anchovies still allowed?

They were never allowed, Dave!

Are anchovies still allowed?

They were never allowed, Dave!

I love your style, Cynthia. Tough and honest.

But really, what is allowed on a pizza?

Anything you'd find on something that would be called "pizza" in a small village pizzeria somewhere in rural Italy, the kind of place that does NOT have an English menu. Where the cheap wine in the pitcher is quite tasty and appropriate. And that means Italian ingredients. Pineapple is not an Italian ingredient. I could perhaps be persuaded that pear and Taleggio or gorgonzola dolce, topped with fresh arugula after baking, could be called a "pizza," if you want something with fruit. Anchovies? Sure. Yuck, but sure.

Tell ya what, let's agree that anything beyond Italian boundaries is henceforth called a "Pizziolatta." I don't think anyone has trademarked that yet, but maybe I should check...

Sorry, you'd be a fun guy to cook with but I just don't swing that way. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

Well, the only thing I could see wrong with it would be the fact that you were in that bed too.

LOL, Stuart.

By your "reasoning", if I make Manhattan Clam Chowder; I should not call it Manhattan Clam Chowder because the ingredients are not from Manhattan?

I have no idea what Manhattan Clam Chowder is and don't get your analogy. Please do not pollute discussions of pizza (praise be upon it) with such atrocities.

Joseph, please do not make me get the bucket.

I'm kind of surprised that no one said anything about tomatoes being a fruit.

Yes, but it's TOMATOES. That's biologically fruit, but culinarily sui generis.

Yes, there are two definitions - one says fruit, one says vegetable.

The Indian people in my office just adore pizza topped with pineapple and jalapenos. Got just the right zip!

That said, I have a bit of sympathy for Stuart's delicate position. I think a pizza made with barbecue sauce, pepper jack, and shredded duck (yes, I've had one) is a very yummy thing but doesn't actually have anything to do with Pizza. I think my requirements for Pizza are: if it is the red kind, then there is tomato sauce and mozzerella cheese at the base; if it is of the white kind, then it has garlic, oil, herbs, and mozzerella cheese at the base; either kind may be topped with whatever you like.

I will note that clam pizza at Pepe's or Sally's does not have any cheese on it, so my 'white kind' definition is a bit too strict for its own good. So it goes.

As I am somewhat of a traditionalist when it comes to food, I prefer the commonly-accepted toppings and topping mixes. (Stuart, you really should try the meat-lover's pizza... all those different sliced and ground-up bits of animals.. yum!)

The Indian people in my office just adore pizza topped with pineapple and jalapenos. Got just the right zip!

That said, I have a bit of sympathy for Stuart's delicate position. I think a pizza made with barbecue sauce, pepper jack, and shredded duck (yes, I've had one) is a very yummy thing but doesn't actually have anything to do with Pizza. I think my requirements for Pizza are: if it is the red kind, then there is tomato sauce and mozzerella cheese at the base; if it is of the white kind, then it has garlic, oil, herbs, and mozzerella cheese at the base; either kind may be topped with whatever you like.

I will note that clam pizza at Pepe's or Sally's does not have any cheese on it, so my 'white kind' definition is a bit too strict for its own good. So it goes.

As I am somewhat of a traditionalist when it comes to food, I prefer the commonly-accepted toppings and topping mixes. (Stuart, you really should try the meat-lover's pizza... all those different sliced and ground-up bits of animals.. yum!)

Jeff,
You should move away from the dark side and try some innovative ingredients. I only use tomato base when making Pizza Margharita or sometimes with grilled veggies. My standard pizza base is pesto. A really great flavor is a base of roasted red peppers (blend roasted red peppers, OO, balsamic vinegar and salt to taste) This is a fantastic base when using fresh goat cheese.
Walt

Sounds yummy, Walt. (I just would call it a variant pizza....)

So would I. That's all Italian.

Okay, here's a curveball. There is fruit, but I would consider these to be all Italian ingredients...(From Todd English's Fig's restaurant)

Fig & Prosciutto...
Crisp rosemary crust with fig & balsamic jam, prosciutto & gorgonzola cheese

Thoughts? (I'm wincing...)

No, that's a slider, not a curve. Remember what I said before about pears, Gorgonzola dolce, and arugula? It's Italian, so it can qualify for the "pizza" species. So can yours.

No, that's a slider, not a curve. Remember what I said before about pears, Gorgonzola dolce, and arugula? It's Italian, so it can qualify for the "pizza" species. So can yours.

Stuart,
I have just awarded you the "most convoluted logic" award of the year which should make you proud. Let me get this straight; pizza is a purely Italian product and the only items to be used on the pizza has to be either grown or made in Italy. Could I get a clarrification on the acceptability of a few ingredients? Raisins? Bacon? Pine nuts? Grilled squash or red peppers? Carmelized onions? Pesto? Shrimp?
Walt